DROdio’s Playbook for Founders: Loving the Problem, Not the Solution

DROdio [0:07] It's kind of like there's this little hop that you take from like one world to the other world, and it feels like the Grand Canyon. It just feels like there's this other world that's completely inaccessible. And you know, how can we lower the barrier to help people take that little hop in really safe ways so that they can experience like, oh my gosh, I can actually step outside the box. I don't just have to live in someone else's construct and work for them and create the kind of value that they're making for their company. Like I can do something that I've wanted to bring into the world.

Azhelle Wade [0:39] Welcome to the founder culture podcast. I'm your host, Azhelle Wade. In this podcast, we talk to fellow founders about challenges they've overcome and the lessons they have to share with those of us who are just starting out. Founder Culture is a community of current and aspiring startup founders, and our goal is to remove the friction around founding and scaling startups. The creator of founder culture and our guest for this first episode is Daniel Odio, better known as DROdio. He's a successful scaling founder himself and the current CEO of Storytell.ai. In this conversation, DROdio shares some of the most important things he's learned in the process of scaling multiple successful startups. We also talk about exactly where to start if you have a business idea that you want to explore. I'm a business owner myself, so I'm excited to dive in and see what I can learn and apply to my own ventures. I was in the toy industry for 10 years before I started my own consulting and education business. Had I known about founder culture and all of the resources that it offers, I might not have waited so long to make the leap for my supposedly safe and cozy corporate job. If you're in the same boat that I was, then you are in the right place. DROdio welcome to the show.

DROdio [2:22] Thank you. It's just so great to be here.

Azhelle Wade [2:26] Oh, I'm excited to get to talk to you, especially because I've been doing a deep dive since we met, and I've got questions. I've got questions. So thank you for being here.

DROdio [2:31] Yeah, great to be here.

Azhelle Wade [2:33] The first thing I want to start with is, where were you in your life when you first decided I'm going to be a founder?

DROdio [2:41] You know, I was a young child. I think when entrepreneurship was thrust upon me. I am the son of an immigrant father who came from Costa Rica when he was in his 20s—the kind of immigrant story. And then my mother's from Nebraska, and I grew up really having to find my own way from a business perspective; you know, my dad told me when I was really young, “Hey, son, if you want to go to college, I'll support you, but you're gonna have to pay for it.” You know, I was probably 10 at the time, and so that was a little different than all my friends. They were getting allowances; you know, I think they were getting 20 bucks a week, and I was getting like, you know, a quarter a week or something. And, yeah, you know, there's a lot I can say about kind of that early journey, but I think when you start early and you start to see opportunity in ways that your friends don't, because they're getting allowances and you're not, I think that really colors a lot of the way that you approach life, and that's what happened to me.

Azhelle Wade [3:21] Do you remember your first entrepreneurial venture? Maybe it was when you were a child. Did you do anything then?

DROdio [3:29] Yeah, the first thing that I really remember, I'm guessing I was eight or nine years old. My parents had just moved to Virginia, and we had just bought a new construction house. So this was… just imagine, like farmland, and they're just starting to build houses in the middle of nowhere. This was in Herndon, Virginia, which is out by Dallas airport. Used to all be farmland. And we were driving through the neighborhood, and my dad said to me, he said, “Hey, son, I bet a lot of those construction workers are really thirsty, and, you know, they're working in the hot sun.” And I said, “Yeah, dad, they probably are.” And so he took me to Costco, which is called Price Club back then, and he loaned me money to buy sodas for these construction workers. And so I bought sodas, and then I converted this wheelbarrow into, like, this soda delivery cart. I put a cooler in it, and I literally would go out and I would sell sodas to construction workers on the corner, and it was just such a formational thing for me.

Azhelle Wade [4:30] But despite his entrepreneurial start, DROdio didn't dive right into the startup world. His upbringing taught him how to hustle, but it also pushed him towards stability.

DROdio [4:40] You know, it's funny having an immigrant father, because I think also part of having an immigrant father, at least for me, was that success looked like working for a big company. So I actually went through a program called INROADS when I was in college, which helps get Latinos and disadvantaged people into larger corporate environments. So I did that. And there I was working for GE, I realized I was really unhappy, like I had been doing these little startups from when I was a child, and I just I didn't like working in the large, kind of safe corporate structure. So I actually ended up leaving that program after a year and a half. It was a two-year program. I literally left six months before I graduated from that program to go do a startup because I just realized I wanted that dopamine hit—a dopamine rush of creating value, finding opportunity, solving problems.

Azhelle Wade [5:33] So DROdio was like, “Wait, all that hustling I did as a kid. I can make a living doing that.” So he dropped out of his program and started his first business. This was 2001.

DROdio [5:46] I started a real estate company. And I'm—I don't know anything about real estate, but I'm a technologist. And out on the East Coast, in Virginia and Northern Virginia, there's just a lot of new home construction happening. And I was in the shower one morning, and I and, like, Google was just coming out, right? Like Google was a new thing, and I realized, like, when I Googled a property address, nothing came up. And it's because all of the real estate companies like REMAX or century 21, had a database of homes, but, like, all the listings were locked up inside this database, so you had to go to, like, Century 21 or RE/MAX and type in the address. And I was like, “If I could expose all those properties as people start to Google properties, then, like, from Google's eyes, I'll be the biggest realtor in the area.” So I did all of that, and then I took that database and I replicated it as a, basically, a public website so that when people drive by a house is for sale, they type in 1234, Main Street, they would see a result. It was my result. And so this is a bit like Redfin is today, but this was 20 years ago on the East Coast, and oh my gosh, it turned into an incredible business, and that was my first real kind of like taking what I got in childhood, like seeing opportunity, right? Seeing opportunity where most people just don't have to see it because they don't have the need and translating. I think that's a really beautiful skill to be able to translate. And it's the same thing as you scale. It's like seeing opportunity where others don't. I think is the beginning of solving a problem.

Azhelle Wade [7:17] How did you know that that idea, like, obviously there was a need? You researched a home address and you didn't find a result. Obviously there was a need. How did you know you would be able to turn that into a monetary gain? How did you see that?

DROdio [7:31] So you're asking, like, how did I know that there was a good solution there that had monetary gain attached to it? I don't. I never do a lot of times. I think I'll do…I might have like, 20 solutions that don't work for everyone that does. And so it's really about being on this journey to understand the problem. You don't need to have the solution. You just have to be interested in, excited about, really trying to unpack the problem, really trying to understand the problem deeply. There's a lot in that space, first.

Azhelle Wade [8:01] As he moved from one startup to the next, DROdio learned that not all his ideas would work, but he also figured out how to give himself the best shot at success by investigating the problem before he even started designing a solution. So in 2016, DROdio and two of his colleagues had an idea for a new startup. It would help larger, more traditional companies innovate and ship software faster. But before he started building, he had to make sure he understood the problem that he was solving… like really understood it.

DROdio [8:33] I had sold another company. I was working, I was working for the company that bought my last company, and I was doing my earn out. And, you know, there for a couple years, and we started by doing user interviews in the parking lot. It was me and two co-founders. We literally would get to work at 7 a.m. instead of 8 a.m., and we would call people that we thought might have a problem that we could solve. We had no idea what the solution looked like. And we would talk to them for an hour and understand what their pain looked like, because people always know their pain. They think they know the answer to that pain, but really, the magic of being a founder is translating patterns of pain into scalable solutions, right? So, like, don't just listen to their answer, but do listen to their pain and understand how deep that pain is, how persistent it is. And so we would do hour-long calls, and we agreed we would not start the company until we did 100 customer interviews. And it took us, I think, three months. And that is something I recommend every founder does. And you can do that while you have a full-time job. There's like, like, that's what I did. There's nothing stopping any of us from doing 100 user discovery calls to understand what scalable patterns of pain look like, and falling in love with the problem. And that is something anybody can do, and ask for a credit card number at the end of the user call. That's a really good way. Like that. You can start to measure, like, the level of pain from the very first user call. Let's say you've got the comfortable corporate job and you're like, Gosh, I really, really think this thing needs to exist in the world. I can't stop thinking about it in the shower. I really think that I should be a founder. Okay, go do 100 calls. Calls with people that you think will want the thing that you might want to build. Fall in love with the problem. Ask them about pain, try to see patterns. When you do those calls, at the end of the call, be like, hey, if I built this thing for you that you're saying could solve these problems. Would you buy it? And would you be willing to give me a credit card number? I won't charge it, but if I build it, then I would charge it for literally $1 or maybe $100 maybe $1,000 or whatever. But if someone's not willing to give you their credit card number for you to charge them $1, then you haven't really found pain. Someone should be like, Oh my God, yes, I would absolutely here's my credit card number. You can charge me $1,000 if you can actually build this like, you can charge me.

Azhelle Wade [10:38] DROdio and his co-founders took the time to do all of this before Armory even existed, and it is what he recommends. It's step one, if you have an idea that you want to get out into the world, find out if actual, real people feel the pain you suspect they do, and if they're willing to pay to make that pain go away. Armory ended up being funded by Y Combinator and eventually went on to raise $83 million. As DROdio has moved through his career with his trail of successful startups behind him, he's learned to take time with the problems and test out solutions as fast as he can.

DROdio [11:13] Like, how can I get ideas out into the world as quickly as possible so that they can actually get—I can have people complain about them so I can learn faster.

Azhelle Wade [11:22] You know that saying that says, like, hire slow, fire fast. Yeah, I feel the same way about the services and products that I offer and create. I just have realized that I can't be so in love with the idea of this product or service that I just keep it in my business, even though it's, like, killing me and I'm not sleeping and, like, no, like, just let it go, just—the next one's coming, you know.

DROdio [11:42] One, one thing about that, the way that I would describe my philosophy is there is—like, time is our most precious resource. We don't know how much of it we have left, and perfectionists are very imperfect with their time. And so how can we try to be perfectionists with our time. And to me, being a perfectionist around time means trying to reduce uncertainty as quickly as possible, and reducing uncertainty means shipping things as quickly as possible. And so I think that's why I just try to get ideas out into the world as much as I can, so that I can actually get feedback from someone who's not me and is a user, so that I can build the right thing fast instead of the wrong thing, right? So I often have people complaining, right? Because they're like, Oh, that's not what I wanted. And it's like, Oh, great. Tell me more. I want to learn more about, like, what could it be? Because, like, it felt like editing something versus writing something. Like, if you're looking at a blank sheet of paper, it's hard to start, but if you see something that sucks, you're like, oh, I can make this better. But it also requires, like, there's this vulnerability to it, right? Because it's like, I can't fall in love with this thing, like, if someone's calling my baby ugly, like, I can't be mad at them. I have to be willing to, like, yeah, accept that they may not—they probably won't love it, and I have to be okay with that and not be defensive about it. Like, I thrive in that kind of—I guess maybe you can call it uncertainty, or like non-polish. Let's call it, right. It's not like the polished perfect thing stresses me out.

DROdio [12:55] It is so stressful. But it's also—it's the space where magic happens.

Azhelle Wade [12:59] I agree that's true. Yes, that's where you learn a lot. You figure out—

DROdio [13:03] Yeah, that's where you learn a lot. Exactly, learn a lot. Well, there's a great quote from Reid Hoffman, so the founder of LinkedIn and a partner now at Greylock. He says, if you're not embarrassed by what you shipped, you waited too long. And I think that really encapsulates this approach, which is like, yeah, it's a little bit scary. Yeah, you gotta be vulnerable. Yeah, people are gonna be complaining. But man, what a gift. What a gift to get that feedback so that you can really learn and understand what would be the right solution to a problem that people are having.

Azhelle Wade [13:31] It's hard though. I remember I put on a one Facebook group, I posted like a website page of a product I wanted to sell. And I was like, What do you guys think about this landing page? And they tore it up.

DROdio [13:41] Totally, right? And it's like, wow, like, that really hurts and—but this is why founder culture exists. Founder culture exists to, like, remind people that they're not alone when they're doing the thing that people think is a bad idea. Because if people thought it was a good idea, they'd already be doing it. So it's like, of course people are gonna think it's a terrible idea until it's not, right? Yeah. And by the way, like, speaking of, like, things that seem like bad ideas that aren't, right. Like, there's just some really great stories here. Like, imagine if I were to, like, say, Hey, I'm gonna, like, go to your house when you're not home, I'm gonna sleep in your bed, use your shampoo, and I'm gonna leave $100 on your bed. It's like, that sounds terrible. It's like, oh, that's Airbnb. You know? It's like, these things that seem like terrible ideas—I’m gonna get in a stranger's car, and I'm gonna trust they're gonna take me where I wanna go. It's like, oh, that's Uber, right? So yeah, this—like, it's a terrible idea until it's not. Yeah.

Azhelle Wade [14:38] And I would say, the advice I wish I had when I got all that negative feedback for the thing I was showing was like, It's okay if you don't know what to do with that negative feedback right now. Just try to figure it out. Because I remember getting the feedback and just hearing what they were saying, but then looking at my product, like, I don't get it, I don't know how to fix it. I don't see it and—but now I see it. Now I've fixed it. Now it's done. It's okay to not know right away. You sit with—

DROdio [15:09] It, and—and like, the thing that I would do with that kind of an experience is I would get on a call with each of those people. I'd say, hey, I want to build for you. Like I am here to solve your problem, not my problem. I’m here to solve your problem. I want to understand your problem better. I want to understand better. What am I not solving for with this thing that I put out into the world that you thought was terrible? Can we get on a 30-minute call? I'm so curious. I want to know more, right? Like, you must have some other idea of what could be, like. If this isn't it, what could that look like?

Azhelle Wade [15:44] This is around the point where things got a little meta.

Azhelle Wade [15:48] Okay, I want to—I want to talk to you about Storytell, because I was on that website earlier today, and it's pretty cool.

DROdio [15:53] Let's do it.

Azhelle Wade [15:54] I wanted to talk to DROdio about his latest startup called Storytell.ai. It helps people sort through long or dense pieces of content like text, audio, or video files and zero in on what matters. When I brought up Storytell, I mentioned that I'd run one of my own YouTube videos through it before our call.

Azhelle Wade [16:08] So what is it you—I would love you to share what it is.

DROdio [16:14] Okay, wait, hold on, before I tell you what it is, see, I can't—I can't pass up an opportunity this good to actually ask you some questions first.

Azhelle Wade [16:22] Yep. He was really going there in the middle of our interview.

DROdio [16:23] I don't want to lead the witness, right? So, like, before I tell you what's in my head, I want to have curiosity about what's in your head.

Azhelle Wade [16:30] He just couldn't pass up a chance to get some feedback.

DROdio [16:32] Maybe it wasn't as great as it could have been for you. And I want to know.

Azhelle Wade [16:35] And it really showed me what DROdio meant when he talked about loving the problem.

DROdio [16:39] The first thing that I think when I hear what you just shared is—

Azhelle Wade [16:41] And not being too in love with the solution.

DROdio [16:43] We need to do a better job of, like, really extracting the nuance.

Azhelle Wade [16:46] And by the end of our conversation—He literally did the thing we were just talking about.

DROdio [16:52] Would you be willing to get on a user discovery call?

Azhelle Wade [16:55] Sure, yeah.

DROdio [16:56] Okay, all right, cool.

Azhelle Wade [17:02] When DROdio talks about falling in love with a problem, this is what he's talking about—finding these scalable patterns of pain and creating a solution that begins to address them. That's the first step for any business, but especially those that will need to secure funding in order to scale.

DROdio [17:18] There's a really wonderful video from Cat at YC, where she talks about people who apply to Y Combinator, which is this really incredible accelerator in Silicon Valley. And she talks about how most people come with ideas, but if you can actually come with a little bit of validation—like show that something's working, show that you actually have, like, a little bit of a prototype that solves some problem. Ideas are so cheap. Everybody has an idea, but if you can just have a little bit of something that's working—"Hey, I've got 10 people using this thing that I cobbled together from spreadsheets or whatever"—it doesn't have to be this amazing, deep technical solution. Just show that you have more than just an idea, or even that you've done 100 user calls, and you’ve seen these 20 patterns. That will just distinguish you from 99% of the people who are dreamers and just have ideas. I didn’t realize that when I was new to the Valley. So I would get these warm intros, which are, you know, hard to get but valuable. I would show up at this VC, and I would just be telling a story about what could be. And a VC, you know, it's just like—the VC hears this all the time. And a VC is going to fund somebody who has some traction. So show that it's already working. Show that you have something that's already working, even if it's like a small little thing. It's just going to distance you from everybody else.

Azhelle Wade [18:33] This is exactly what DROdio did with AppMaker; that was one of his first startups and the one that brought him out to Silicon Valley back in 2010.

DROdio [18:43] The thing that really started to work with Appmaker was that we launched this MVP of a platform, and we had a waiting list of people that wanted to make apps. And it was growing to like thousands of people. And we didn’t have the ability to actually process all those app creators, but we were able to show that there was demand, and it was just incredible. Like, once we had this example of demand, a VC's like, great, you’ve got something. Obviously, there’s something there. You know, it may work out, it may not, but like, I’m gonna back the possibility that it will. And that was really—that was the big learning for me—was like, show that something's already working.

Azhelle Wade [19:18] You’re just showing me how ideas are just everywhere, you know? They're—yeah. So people that are so afraid of their one idea either being stolen or they don’t want to sell that company because they're like, it's my baby, or—or whatever reason they're laboring over something that's not working. The next idea might just be sitting at the end of selling that company. It might be sitting at the end of just walking away from it. Yeah. So that's just part of being a founder, I think—being able to walk away from other ideas to pursue the next one.

DROdio [19:47] I think falling in love with my idea is a version of falling in love with the solution, versus using that idea as the starting point of learning how to fall in love with the problem, right? I have something that I think needs to exist in the world. I think it's a problem, but do other people think it's a problem? Because if other people don’t think it’s a problem, I’m never going to be able to actually turn this into a large venture-scale business. So use that idea as the starting point, not the ending point. There’s nothing to protect there, you know, right? Go bring it to a lot of people and ask a lot of questions about it. I see founders are like, "Well, you have to sign an NDA for me to tell you my idea." It’s like, oh, whatever, like—whatever. Like, I—like, basically what you’re telling me is that you care more about what you think about your idea than what I or anybody else who’s not you actually thinks about what you could build. Like, okay. So if you're like, if that’s your attitude, then I can’t help you.

Azhelle Wade [20:41] But if you are ready to fall in love with your problem and start shipping ideas, DROdio and the rest of us at FounderCulture can help you. Now, if you were doing this, if you’re starting over today, and knowing that FounderCulture is a thing, how would you have used that to make that whole process easier?

DROdio [20:59] I think—I think there’s maybe three big things. So the first is, there’s this really great talk by Mike Maples of Floodgate, where he talks about how, like, founders are time travelers. Like, we’ve been to the future. We’ve seen a future that doesn’t yet exist, and now we’re coming back to the present, and we have to convince people to come along with us on the journey. And so there’s this idea that, as a founder, you need to tell a really big story, a really big vision. How can this be a billion-, multi-billion-, or even trillion-dollar company?

Azhelle Wade [21:30] Even if you’re not dreaming that big, this still goes for you.

DROdio [21:34] And then you need to be able to tie that back to something believable today. So it’s like, “I’m gonna build a trillion-dollar company. And by the way, I’ve got this little thing that’s already working,” and that is going to be like the ladder that I’m going to climb to get to where I’m going to go. But I’m gonna sell you on the vision, and I’m gonna sell you on my credibility. It’s like, why you? Why now? I think the first thing is there’s a lot of, like, resources in FounderCulture about founders that have really mastered the art of telling that story that’s very big but very believable, and a clear path between the two. I think founders often don’t tell the big story. So it’s like, okay, you’ve got something, but like, why is this going to be more than a lifestyle business? Or you tell a big story, it’s like, okay, that’s a big story, but like, I don’t believe that you can pull it off. And so there’s… there’s some magic to being able to do both.

DROdio [22:22] So that's the first thing. The second thing is this actual approach to falling in love with the problem. There's a lot of structure around doing these user calls, and we can talk as much about that as you want—maybe now, maybe in a future podcast. But like, there is a way to do that well, and there’s a way to not do that well. And, like, you don’t have to learn that yourself.

DROdio [22:42] And then the third thing is introductions. FounderCulture is very much about paying it forward. So like a scaling founder like Clint Chart from Cribl, who has raised hundreds of millions of dollars—Clint has an incredible network. Or like Jeff Schmidt from Apollo or John Kim from Sunbird, like these founders have amazing networks. How can you, as someone that nobody knows, tap into those networks? And it’s about building trust and credibility with them so that they will put their reputation on the line to then introduce you to their network. And FounderCulture can really help with that. FounderCulture is that safe space for you to practice with other founders before you go in front of, let’s say, a VC. And so founders are also going to give you, like, the honest feedback that you don’t usually get, because people are like, "Oh, you know, trying to be nice." It’s like, no, you need the honest feedback. Like, feedback is a gift. Feedback means people care enough to complain or tell you what’s wrong. Like, what really—the real big killer of startups is apathy, where just nobody cares. So if you’re getting feedback as a founder, like, embrace that. Don’t be defensive. Like, ask for more. It’s like, "Thank you for caring enough to spend your time to tell me how bad my solution is. I want to hear more. More, please."

Azhelle Wade [23:46] And just because something isn’t working at first doesn’t mean it’s time to give up.

DROdio [23:50] I think it happens all the time. You're like, "Okay, I’ve got this thing. It’s gonna be perfect. I’m gonna launch it into the world. Everyone’s gonna love it." And then it’s like, crickets. But it’s not total cricket. There’s like one, you know, there’s one person who’s like, "Huh? I mean, maybe, like, it’s not exactly what I need. But like, maybe." And I think you have two choices as a founder. You can, like, be like, "No, you’re wrong. I’m right. My thing’s perfect." And that—you know, great, you can build something for yourself that’s not going to be a venture-scale business. Or you can be like, "Oh my God, really? Like, there’s actually something here that you might want? Like, can you tell me more? Can you tell me what’s not working? Like, I’d really love to understand. Can you tell me what would it look like if it did work? Can I actually like, work next to you for a month and try to build it for you? Like, do you have a few other people that might have the same problem? Like, can you introduce me to them? I want to talk to them too."

Azhelle Wade [24:36] Talking to DROdio, the thing that stands out to me is that even seasoned founders who have raised tons of money for startups and have been bringing new ideas into the world for literal decades don’t just have some magical gift that no one else has. They follow a process, and it’s one that you can learn along with us here at FounderCulture.

DROdio [24:57] Taking that little hop—it’s a really scary moment. It feels like the Grand Canyon. It just feels like there’s this other world that’s completely inaccessible. And I think people often feel very alone, but it’s like, you’re not alone. Many of us have done it, and startups can be awesome and terrible all in the same day. But to be, like, building something, bringing something into the world—that moment when you take nothing and turn it into something. It’s just incredible to me. Founders are special. Founders create value in the world, and we all have it. We all have that opportunity inside of us to be a founder and to change the world.

Azhelle Wade [25:38] If you’re listening to this and you’re on the fence, I get it. I always wanted to do my own thing and make my own mark on the world, but I thought my business ideas were better off as side hustles. My mom ran her own business when I was growing up, so I’m all too familiar with the roller coaster of being a founder. I wanted to avoid that volatile lifestyle—the unpredictability, the ups and the downs. I was afraid to give up stability. And to be honest, starting my own company has been terrifying, but taking control of my career and building something from nothing has been life-changing. And if that’s something that you want to do, you don’t have to do it alone.

DROdio [26:18] Founder Culture is open for anyone to join. There’s a couple different kind of, like—it’s like the circles of trust. So, like, the most intimate circle is just for founders, because it has to be a safe and vulnerable space in order to be able to, like, really talk about how it’s not always up and to the right. Like, we don’t let VCs into that circle. But if you’re a founder, you’re very welcome there. Like, it exists for that.

DROdio [26:41] The next kind of, like, broader circle of trust is people who are not yet founders but want to become founders. So we’ll call you a subject matter expert. Maybe you have deep domain expertise in a thing, but you work at a big company. We still would love to invite you in, and we can invite you in so that you can help support founders. Maybe you advise founders, and maybe you take the leap to become a founder, and we can, like, welcome you into that inner sanctum.

DROdio [27:09] And then we have content that we make public for the world. It’s like, I don’t know if I want to become a founder. We try to make as much content public as we possibly can so that you can learn more about what it means to become a founder. So there’s like three levels.

Azhelle Wade [27:22] Love that. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure chatting with you today.

DROdio [27:25] Likewise.

Azhelle Wade [27:26] All right. Thank you, DROdio.

Azhelle Wade [27:29] If you want to connect with DROdio, you can find him at DROdio—D, R, O, D, i, o—on most platforms, or you can connect with him through FounderCulture at founderculture.net. If you’re looking for more information on anything we talked about today, including a step-by-step for customer discovery calls, you can find it in the show notes.

Azhelle Wade [27:44] And before you go, DROdio has one little request for you.

DROdio [27:47] I would love to hear your stories. You know, like, if you were motivated by this podcast to make that little hop, which felt like it was the Grand Canyon, and actually, like, dive into it. You know, just start doing a few calls. You don’t have to quit your job to, like, do 100 calls. I’d love to hear stories from people that actually take that leap.

Azhelle Wade [28:05] To share your story, send us an email at podcast@founderculture.net. We just might include it in a future episode.

Azhelle Wade [28:10] That’s it for today’s show. Our producers are Vin Cilento and Samia Buzied, who is also our mixer. Special thanks to DROdio and Maria Constantine. I’m your host, Azhelle Wade. Thanks for listening.